What if treating autism were more like working with trauma and less like learning a foreign language like Behavioral Analysis? That the states in which a person is more or less autistic is governed by where within their window of tolerance they are. Building on the work of Stephen Porges, the developer of Polyvagal theory (PVT), view autism expert Sean Inderbitzen, APSW, MINT, an autistic social worker as he guides you through:
Polyvagal theory gives us a basis to understand autism in a way that is modifiable with greater gains in accessing autistic clients’ window of tolerance... resulting in increased creativity, openness, curiosity, cognitive flexibility, and social engagement!
Planning Committee Disclosure - No relevant relationships
All members of the PESI, Inc. planning committee have provided disclosures of financial relationships with ineligible organizations and any relevant non-financial relationships prior to planning content for this activity. None of the committee members had relevant financial relationships with ineligible companies or other potentially biasing relationships to disclose to learners. For speaker disclosures, please see the faculty biography.
NOTE: Tuition includes one free CE Certificate (participant will be able to print the certificate of completion after passing the online post-test (80% passing score) and completing the evaluation). Instructional methods will include PowerPoint, didactic lecture, and others.
Continuing Education Information: Listed below are the continuing education credit(s) currently available for this non-interactive self-study package. Program content is reviewed periodically per accrediting board rules for currency and appropriateness for credit. Credit approvals are subject to change. Please note, your state licensing board dictates whether self-study is an acceptable form of continuing education, as well as which credit types are acceptable for continuing education hours. Please refer to your state rules and regulations. If your profession is not listed, please contact your licensing board to determine your continuing education requirements and check for reciprocal approval.
For other credit inquiries not specified below, please contact info@pesi.com or 800-844-8260 before purchase.
Materials that are included in this course may include interventions and modalities that are beyond the authorized practice of your profession. As a licensed professional, you are responsible for reviewing the scope of practice, including activities that are defined in law as beyond the boundaries of practice in accordance with and in compliance with your profession's standards.
For Planning Committee disclosures, please see the statement above. For speaker disclosures, please see the faculty biography.
Earn up to 1.5 CE hours. Please see below, for more details, as credit amounts vary by state and profession.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Credit requirements and approvals vary per state board regulations. Please save the course outline, the certificate of completion you receive from the activity and contact your state board or organization to determine specific filing requirements.
The California Board of Behavioral Sciences accepts CE programs that are approved by other approval agencies, including several that approve PESI and its programs. A full list of approval agencies accepted by the BBS can be found at www.bbs.ca.gov/licensees/cont_ed.html under “Where to find CE Courses.” This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Clinical Social Work, Marriage and Family Therapy and Mental Health Counseling. Provider Number 50-399. This self-study course qualifies for 1.5 continuing education credits.
This intermediate self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Per the IDFPR: Social Work Continuing Education Sponsors approved by the Division in accordance with the rules for the administration of Clinical Social Work and Social Work Practice Act (225 ILCS 201), 68 Ill. Adm. Code 1470.95; PESI, Inc. is a registered social work continuing education sponsor with the Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, Division of Professional Regulation. License #: 159-000154. A certificate of attendance will be awarded at the end of the program to participants who are in full attendance, pass a post-test, and who complete the program evaluation.
CE credit is available. This self-study course consists of 1.75 continuing education credit hours for Kentucky Counselors. The Continuing Education Requirements for the Kentucky Board of Licensed Professional Counselors (201 KAR 36:030 Section 2) state continuing education programs from providers sponsored or approved by a state counseling licensure board shall be approved without further review by the board. PESI, Inc. is approved by the South Carolina Board of Examiners for Licensure of Professional Counselors, Marriage and Family Therapists, and Psycho-Educational Specialists. Provider #4540. PESI maintains responsibility for this program and its contents.
CE credit is available. This self-study course consists of 1.5 continuing education clock hours for Missouri Counselors. The Missouri Committee for Professional Counselors accepts continuing education programs relevant to counseling that are provided by organizations recognized by national social worker associations. PESI, Inc. is recognized by a national social worker association. Please see social work approvals for this program.
The Montana Board of Behavioral Health no longer pre-approves any courses or sponsors. Each licensee is responsible for taking courses which contribute to their competence and directly relate to their scope of practice as defined in board statute (MAR 24-219-32). Licensees must keep CE documentation for three years in case of an audit. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved CEU provider with the State of Nevada Board of Examiners for Marriage and Family Therapists and Clinical Professional Counselors. This self-study activity qualifies for 1.5 contact hours. Approved Provider # NVCEP2006.
PESI, Inc. is an approved continuing education provider by the New Mexico Counseling and Therapy Practice Board. Provider #CCE0180571. Provider approval period effective 03/28/2016 to 09/30/2024. This self-study program consists of 1.5 clock hours
PESI, Inc. is recognized by the New York State Education Department's (NYSED) State Board for Mental Health Practitioners as an approved provider of continuing education for Licensed Mental Health Counselors. #MHC-0033. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.75 contact hours. Full attendance is required; no partial credits will be offered for partial attendance.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the State of Ohio Counselor, Social Worker and Marriage & Family Therapist Board. Provider approval #:RCST071001. Full attendance at this course meets the qualifications for 1.5 clock hours of General continuing education. Tracking number: 20-TBD
The Pennsylvania State Board of Social Workers, Marriage and Family Therapists and Professional Counselors accepts many national association CE approvals, several of which PESI offers. For a full list, please see your State Board regulations at https://www.dos.pa.gov/ProfessionalLicensing/BoardsCommissions/. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
This self-study program has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours by the South Carolina Board of Examiners for Licensure of Professional Counselors, Marriage and Family Therapists, and Psycho-Educational Specialists. Provider #4540.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Texas State Board of Examiners of Professional Counselors no longer approves programs or providers. PESI activities meet the continuing education requirements as listed in Title 22 Texas Administrative Code, Chapter 681, Subchapter J, Section 681.142 Acceptable Continuing Education. Please retain the certificate of completion that you receive and use as proof of completion when required.
PESI, Inc., #1062, is approved as an ACE provider to offer social work continuing education by the Association of Social Work Boards (ASWB) Approved Continuing Education (ACE) program. Regulatory boards are the final authority on courses accepted for continuing education credit. ACE provider approval period: January 27, 2023 - January 27, 2026. Social workers completing this course receive 1.5 Clinical continuing education credits.
Course Level: Intermediate Format: Recorded asynchronous distance. Full attendance is required; no partial credits will be offered for partial attendance.
Canadian Social Workers: Canadian provinces may accept activities approved by the ASWB for ongoing professional development.
The California Board of Behavioral Sciences accepts CE programs that are approved by other approval agencies, including several that approve PESI and its programs. A full list of approval agencies accepted by the BBS can be found at www.bbs.ca.gov/licensees/cont_ed.html under “Where to find CE Courses.” This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Colorado Chapter of the National Association of Social Workers. Provider #1413. This self-study course has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours.
COLORADO PARTICIPANTS ONLY: If you did not answer YES to be reported to the Colorado Chapter of the NASW on the evaluation, please contact cepesi@pesi.com and provide the full title of the webcast, speaker name, date of live broadcast, your name and your license number in the email.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Clinical Social Work, Marriage and Family Therapy and Mental Health Counseling. Provider Number 50-399. This self-study course qualifies for 1.5 continuing education credits.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the State of Illinois, Department of Financial and Professional Regulation, Division of Professional Regulation. License #: 159-000154. Successful completion of this self-study activity qualifies for 1.5 contact hours.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Kansas Behavioral Sciences Regulatory Board. Provider #14-006. This self-study course has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the State of Minnesota, Board of Social Work. Provider #: CEP-140. This self-study package has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours. This certificate has been issued upon successful completion of a post-test.
The Montana Board of Behavioral Health no longer pre-approves any courses or sponsors. Each licensee is responsible for taking courses which contribute to their competence and directly relate to their scope of practice as defined in board statute (MAR 24-219-32). Licensees must keep CE documentation for three years in case of an audit. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of instruction.
PESI, Inc. is recognized by the New York State Education Department's (NYSED) State Board for Social Work as an approved provider of continuing education for licensed social workers #SW-0008. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.75 contact hours. Full attendance is required; no partial credits will be offered for partial attendance.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the State of Ohio Counselor, Social Worker and Marriage & Family Therapist Board. Provider approval #:RCST071001. Full attendance at this course meets the qualifications for 1.5 clock hours of General continuing education. Tracking number: 20-TBD
The Pennsylvania State Board of Social Workers, Marriage and Family Therapists and Professional Counselors accepts many national association CE approvals, several of which PESI offers. For a full list, please see your State Board regulations at https://www.dos.pa.gov/ProfessionalLicensing/BoardsCommissions. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
This activity consists of 1.5 hours of continuing education instruction and is designed to meet the requirements of the Arizona Board of Psychologist Examiners (Sec. R4-26). Please save the course outline, certificate of completion, and any other supporting documentation you receive from this home study activity in case it is requested by the board.
CE credit is available. This self-study course consists of 1.5 continuing education credit hours for California Psychologists. The California Department of Consumer Affairs Board of Psychology recognizes and accepts for continuing education credit courses that are specifically applicable and pertinent to the practice of psychology and by entities approved by the ACCME (Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education). This enduring material is certified for a maximum of 1.5 AMA PRA Category 1 Credits™ by PESI as an accredited ACCME provider authorized to award credit by the AMA. PESI, Inc. is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education to provide continuing medical education for physicians.
PESI, Inc. is approved by the Canadian Psychological Association to offer continuing education for psychologists. PESI, Inc. maintains responsibility for the program. This program is approved for 1.5 self-study continuing education hours. Full credit statement at: www.pesi.com/cpa-statement
PESI, Inc., is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Psychology.Provider Number #50-399.This product qualifies for 1.5 self-study continuing education credits.
PESI, Inc is an approved provider with the State of Illinois, Department of Professional Regulation. License #: 268.000102. Full attendance at this self-study course qualifies for 1.5 contact hours.
PESI, Inc. is approved by the Kentucky Board of Examiners of Psychology to offer continuing education for psychologists, approved provider #202312H. PESI maintains responsibility for this program and its content. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.5 contact hours.
PESI, Inc. is recognized by the New York State Education Department's (NYSED) State Board for Psychology as an approved provider of continuing education for licensed psychologists #PSY-0014. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.75 contact hours. Full attendance is required; no partial credits will be offered for partial attendance.
CE credit is available. This course consists of 1.5 continuing education clock hours for North Dakota Psychologists. The North Dakota State Board of Psychologist Examiners, pursuant to 66-03-01-03, confirms acceptance of continuing education programs for content related to practice authorized in North Dakota (century code 43-32) for programs approved by certain ce associations. When printing your certificate, please include any national social work approvals.
PESI, Inc. is approved by the Ohio Psychological Association, Provider #263896894, to sponsor continuing education for psychologists. PESI, Inc. maintains responsibility for this program and its content. PESI is offering this self-study activity for 1.5 Standard hours of continuing education credit.
PESI, Inc. is approved by the Pennsylvania State Board of Psychology to offer continuing education for psychologists. Provider #PSY000211. PESI maintains responsibility for the program(s). This self-study program qualifies for 1.5 continuing education hours.
Physicians: PESI, Inc. is accredited by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education to provide continuing medical education for physicians. PESI, Inc. designates this enduring material for a maximum of 1.5 AMA PRA Category 1 Credit(s)™. This activity was originally recorded on 04/22/2022. It was last reviewed on 04/04/2022 and is valid until 04/03/2025. Physicians should only claim credit commensurate with the extent of their participation in the activity. You are required to successfully complete and submit a post-test prior to receiving a certificate of completion.
Psychologists: The following state psychologist boards recognize activities sponsored by PESI, Inc. as an approved ACCME provider: Alaska, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, Missouri, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina and Wisconsin. This activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. You are required to successfully complete and submit a post-test prior to receiving a certificate of completion.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Credit requirements and approvals vary per state board regulations. Please save this course outline, the certificate of completion you receive from this self-study activity and contact your state board or organization to determine specific filing requirements.
The California Board of Behavioral Sciences accepts CE programs that are approved by other approval agencies, including several that approve PESI and its programs. A full list of approval agencies accepted by the BBS can be found at www.bbs.ca.gov/licensees/cont_ed.html under “Where to find CE Courses.” This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Clinical Social Work, Marriage and Family Therapy and Mental Health Counseling. Provider Number 50-399. This self-study course qualifies for 1.5 continuing education credits.
PESI, Inc. has been approved as a provider of continuing education by the State of Illinois, Department of Professional Regulation. Provider #:168-000156. Full attendance at this self-study activity qualifies for 1.5 credits.
The Montana Board of Behavioral Health no longer pre-approves any courses or sponsors. Each licensee is responsible for taking courses which contribute to their competence and directly relate to their scope of practice as defined in board statute (MAR 24-219-32). Licensees must keep CE documentation for three years in case of an audit. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved CEU provider with the State of Nevada Board of Examiners for Marriage and Family Therapists and Clinical Professional Counselors. This self-study activity qualifies for 1.5 contact hours. Approved Provider # NVCEP2006.
PESI, Inc. is recognized by the New York State Education Department's (NYSED) State Board for Mental Health Practitioners as an approved provider of continuing education for Licensed Marriage and Family Therapists. #MFT-0024. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.75 contact hours. Full attendance is required; no partial credits will be offered for partial attendance.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the State of Ohio Counselor, Social Worker and Marriage & Family Therapist Board. Provider approval #:RCST071001. Full attendance at this course meets the qualifications for 1.5 clock hours of General continuing education. Tracking number: 20-TBD
The Pennsylvania State Board of Social Workers, Marriage and Family Therapists and Professional Counselors accepts many national association CE approvals, several of which PESI offers. For a full list, please see your State Board regulations at https://www.dos.pa.gov/ProfessionalLicensing/BoardsCommissions/. This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
This self-study program has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours by the South Carolina Board of Examiners for Licensure of Professional Counselors, Marriage and Family Therapists, and Psycho-Educational Specialists. Provider #4540.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Texas State Board of Examiners of Marriage and Family Therapists no longer approves programs or providers. PESI activities meet the continuing education requirements as listed in Title 22 of the Texas Administrative Code, Chapter 801, Subchapter K, Section 801.264 Types of Acceptable Continuing Education. Please retain the certificate of completion that you receive and use as proof of completion when required.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Credit requirements and approvals vary per state board regulations. Please save the course outline, the certificate of completion you receive from the activity and contact your state board or organization to determine specific filing requirements.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider by the CCAPP-EI, Provider #: OS-03-036-1025. This activity meets the qualifications for 1.5 CEH's (continuing education hours).
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider by the CADTP, Provider #: 201. This Category H activity meets the qualifications for 1.5 CEU's (continuing education hours).
Provider #120924. This course has been approved as a CCB approved training and has been awarded 1.5 hours by the Connecticut Certification Board.
PESI, Inc. is an Oklahoma Board of Licensed Alcohol and Drug Counselors approved provider #20240032. This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
This self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction. Credit requirements and approvals vary per state board regulations. Please save the course outline, the certificate of completion you receive from this self-study activity and contact your state board or organization to determine specific filing requirements.
PESI, Inc. is a provider approved by the California Board of Registered Nursing, Provider #: 17118 for 1.5 self-study contact hours.
** You will need to provide your license number to PESI. PESI must have this number on file in order for your hours to be valid.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider by the Florida Board of Nursing. Provider #: FBN2858. These materials qualify for 1.5 self-study contact hours.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider by the Iowa Board of Nursing. Provider #: 346. Nurses successfully completing these self-study materials will earn 1.5 self-study contact hours. Please email cepesi@pesi.com with your license number, include the title, speaker name and date. PESI must have this number on file in order for your hours to be valid.
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PESI, Inc. is an AOTA Approved Provider of professional development. Course approval ID# 0000004465 . This Distance Learning-Independent is offered at .15 CEUs Intermediate, OT Service Delivery. The assignment of AOTA CEUs does not imply endorsement of specific course content, products, or clinical procedures by AOTA. Full attendance at this Distance Learning-Independent activity qualifies for 1.5 contact hours. |
CE credit is available. This self-study course consists of 1.5 continuing education clock hours for Arizona OTs and OTAs. The Arizona Board of Occupational Therapy Examiners (R4-43-203) confirms acceptance of continuing education programs relevant to occupational therapy that are approved by the American Occupational Therapy Association (AOTA).
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Occupational Therapy. Provider Number #50-399. This course qualifies for 1.5 self-study continuing education credits.
This course consists of 1.5 self-study clock hours. Credit requirements and approvals vary per state board regulations. Please save the course outline, the certificate of completion you receive from this self-study activity and contact your state board or organization to determine specific filing requirements.
1.5 ISBE Professional Development (PD) Clock Hours have been made available through Quincy University. Those requesting ISBE PD Clock Hours will need to complete additional steps in order to receive the ISBE “Evidence of Completion for Professional Development” form.
While completing the post-test/evaluation be sure to answer the question “Are you an Illinois Educator” Yes. PESI will then be prompted to send you the “Evaluation for Workshop, Conference, Seminar, Etc.” form. You will need to complete the ISBE evaluation form, and return it plus the applicable ISBE enrollment fee(s) (made payable to PESI, Inc.), and your name within two weeks from receiving your CE certificate. You will then be emailed the “ISBE Evidence of Completion for Professional Development” form.
1.0 Professional Growth Points are available for full attendance of this self-study package per the Indiana Department of Education standards.
This self-study package is offered for 1.0 Renewal Units. PESI, Inc. is an Approved Renewal Unit Provider with the Montana Office of Public Instruction.
PESI, Inc. is an approved sponsor of CTLE with the New York State Education Department's (NYSED) Office of Teaching Initiatives. Provider #23567. This self-study activity will qualify for 1.5 Approved Continuing Teacher and Leader Education (CTLE) Hour(s), in the area of Pedagogy. Hours are based on full attendance. Board required certificates will be sent after the program.
PESI, Inc., has been approved as a CPE Provider #500-981 for Texas Educators by the Texas State Board for Educator Certification (SBED). This self-study package qualifies for 1.5 CPE clock hours.
The California Board of Behavioral Sciences accepts CE programs that are approved by other approval agencies, including several that approve PESI and its programs. A full list of approval agencies accepted by the BBS can be found at www.bbs.ca.gov/licensees/cont_ed.html under “Where to find CE Courses.” This intermediate level self-study activity consists of 1.5 clock hours of continuing education instruction.
This self-study program has been approved for 1.5 continuing education hours by the South Carolina Board of Examiners for Licensure of Professional Counselors, Marriage and Family Therapists, and Psycho-Educational Specialists. Provider #4540.
Intermediate Level
.15 ASHA CEUs
** ASHA Self Study CEUs are available on this course from 06/18/2022 to 05/31/2025. PESI, Inc. will submit ASHA CEU Requests to the ASHA CE Registry on a monthly basis; ASHA CEU Requests received before 06/18/2022 or after 05/31/2025 cannot be reported.
** Please note that Speech-Language Pathologists & Audiologists who participate in the self-study (Digital Seminar or Online Course) will be required to complete additional steps if they want their participation submitted to the ASHA CE Registry. Detailed instructions will be provided under the Handouts section of the online program.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the California Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology Board, #PDP 319. This course meets the qualifications for 1.5 hours of self-study continuing professional development credit for Speech-Language Pathologists or Audiologists, as required by the California Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology Board.
PESI, Inc. is an approved provider with the Florida Board of Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology. Provider Number: 50-399. This self-study course qualifies for 1.5 continuing education credits.
Approved for 1.5 self-study continuing education clock hours for Kansas licensed Speech-Language Pathologists by the Kansas Department for Aging and Disability Services.
This self-study activity qualifies for 1.5 continuing education clock hours as required by many national, state and local licensing boards and professional organizations. Save your activity advertisement and certificate of completion, and contact your own board or organization for specific requirements.
| File type | File name | Number of pages | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Manual - Treating Autism and PTSD Comorbid Through a Polyvagal-Informed Lens (3.8 MB) | 44 Pages | Available after Purchase | |
| Transcript (114.6 KB) | 21 Pages | Available after Purchase | |
| Illinois Educators Self-Study Instructions (15.4 KB) | Available after Purchase | ||
| Illinois Educators Evaluation Form (1.2 MB) | Available after Purchase | ||
| Instructions for ASHA credit - Self-Study Only (64.4 KB) | Available after Purchase | ||
| Manual - Treating Autism and PTSD Comorbid Through a Polyvagal-Informed Lens - French (3.8 MB) | 44 Pages | Available after Purchase | |
| Manual - Treating Autism and PTSD Comorbid Through a Polyvagal-Informed Lens - Italian (3.8 MB) | 44 Pages | Available after Purchase |
Sean Inderbitzen, DSW, LCSW, MINT, has lived 32 years with autism spectrum disorder and is an active clinical social worker within a community health center specializing in the treatment of Autism and co-occurring trauma. He graduated from Tulane School of Social Work in spring of 2023 and was awarded $40,000 by Mayo Clinic to investigate the impacts of increased pediatrician confidence on access to patients suspected of autism spectrum disorder in rural medical settings.
Additionally, Dr. Inderbitzen’s research team (Katie Diebold, LMSW and colleagues) are studying the effectiveness of Sensorimotor Psychotherapy on children with PTSD and Autism Spectrum Disorder, in consultation with Sensorimotor Psychotherapy Institute, and under the guidance of Dr. Bonnie Goldstein. In addition to research, he maintains an active practice in a community mental health center working with persons on the Autism Spectrum. Dr. Inderbitzen is mentored by such innovators as Dr. Stephen Porges and consults with organizations on autism spectrum disorder and Motivational Interviewing. He is an active member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers, and his writings can be found regularly featured on Differnetbrains.org, and has a forthcoming book from W.W. Norton, called Autism in Polyvagal Terms.
Speaker Disclosures:
Financial: Sean Inderbitzen has employment relationships with Northlakes Community Clinic and Inderbitzen Consulting Services, LLC. He receives royalties as a published author. Sean Inderbitzen receives grants from Mayo Clinic Health Systems. He receives a speaking honorarium and recording royalties from PESI, Inc. He has no relevant financial relationships with ineligible organizations.
Non-financial: Sean Inderbitzen has a professional relationship with Dr. Stephen Porges, Barry Prizant, and Pat Ogden.
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